Danielle L Dec 9, 2018 11:26 am
It's been far, far too long, so I have decided to dust off my copy of Rogue Planet to use with some miniatures that have been equally neglected, but have a couple questions after a thorough read-through of the rules before I begin teaching the game.
-I think this has been addressed already, but anytime a damage result causes damage equal to the absolute difference between the CQ/RAT vs DEF, even a negative result for the firing unit causes that much damage (so RAT3 vs. DEF5= 2 damage)?
-Can a machine gun just be fired normally as a ranged attack for 1 AP (just with no bonus to the roll), or to do damage with an MG will you always have to make a Heavy Fire attack and pay 2AP?
-I think this has been addressed already, but anytime a damage result causes damage equal to the absolute difference between the CQ/RAT vs DEF, even a negative result for the firing unit causes that much damage (so RAT3 vs. DEF5= 2 damage)?
-Can a machine gun just be fired normally as a ranged attack for 1 AP (just with no bonus to the roll), or to do damage with an MG will you always have to make a Heavy Fire attack and pay 2AP?
Brent S Dec 10, 2018 3:39 am PUBLISHER
Welcome back to the planet!
Yes. Anytime that your attack roll is a success [7+ on the dice after modifiers], you do damage equal to the absolute difference of the two characteristics. When you have a lower RAT vs higher DEF, like in your example above, a successful attack represents a shot that bypassed the target's vastly superior defenses to hit a vital component or weak spot.
Yes. Any ranged weapon may be fired normally. The Heavy Fire attack just increases your chances of successfully hitting the target through high volume.
Have fun!
Yes. Anytime that your attack roll is a success [7+ on the dice after modifiers], you do damage equal to the absolute difference of the two characteristics. When you have a lower RAT vs higher DEF, like in your example above, a successful attack represents a shot that bypassed the target's vastly superior defenses to hit a vital component or weak spot.
Yes. Any ranged weapon may be fired normally. The Heavy Fire attack just increases your chances of successfully hitting the target through high volume.
Have fun!
Now that's interesting: a rule that I hadn't appreciated nor played to date in my Rogue Planet journey. It has sent my head spinning thinking it through. Over the last year or so, I've been converting W40K forces into Rogue Planet proxies. Let's have a look at the stat-line of two bands of protagonists that I employed in a game earlier this year:
Rifrost's Kill Team - 3 Units @ 226 Credits with a 6 Point Energy Pool*
- Commissar Gallus Rifrost (Leader) CQ 3, RAT 3, DEF 4, ARM Light, Size Small, Energy 3*, Pistol (Fantasy Ranged weapon) and Power Sword (Powered + Blade). 62 Credits.
- 2x Dusk Confessor Tactical Space Marines Nixios and Khan CQ 4, RAT 4, DEF 5, ARM Medium, Size Small, Energy 3, Powered Armour and Boltguns (Carbine). 82 Credits each.
The Enlightened Fire Cult Warband - 5 Units @ 223 Credits with a 5 Point Energy Pool*
- Emilio "The Evil Eye" Couto (Leader) CQ 3, RAT 3, DEF 5, ARM Light, Size Small, Energy 3*, Powered Fist, Autogun (Fantasy Ranged weapon), Psyker and Blink. 82 Credits.
- Armando Elizalde CQ 3, RAT 4, DEF 4, ARM Light, Size Small, Energy 1 and Heavy Stubber (Machine Gun). 53 Credits.
- 3x Nameless Cultists CQ 3, RAT 3, DEF 4, ARM Light, Size Small, Energy 1, Autogun (Fantasy Ranged) and Blade. 31 Credits each.
To date, should I be resolving the damage resulting from a successful Shoot action by the Cultists targeting a Space Marine, the most damage I would have applied would be 1 point. Why? A Critical or Total Success vs Medium Armour sees the RAT-DEF difference applied to the target, with a minimum of 1 Point. 3-5 is -2, so I'd round that up to 1 point.
If it is the absolute difference between the RAT 3 and DEF 5 stats, then 2 points of damage should be applied. Now that's big news: Medium Armoured Tactical Space Marines generate 2 Energy Points so the difference between 1 and 2 Damage Points has a significant impact on their longevity.
But it gets even more interesting if you were to tweak the stats some more. More recently, I've been using Cultists with 2 Point stat-line i.e. RAT 2, DEF 2 and CQ 2. They come in at 17 Credits each instead of 31 - so you can almost afford two lower-powered Cultists instead and benefit from an extra 1 Energy Point in their Energy Pool.
If these less proficient Cultists were to score a Total or Critical Success on a Space Marine they'd do 3 points of damage, not 2. That's essentially game over for the Space Marine. Or is it...
Skill Checks in Rogue Planet are pretty nifty: a single roll of the die (usually 2d6) determines whether you succeed or not and what other factors are applied. Worth a read of some of my earlier Battle Reports to understand it more or you could buy the Rogue Planet rules, they're well worth their ~$10 price.
So if a Cultist with RAT 3 was firing at the Space Marine with DEF 5 (i.e at a -2 modifier) whilst they could potentially do 2 Points of damage, there's actually only a 6% chance of that occurring (discounting the Power Armour-related save). There's a 22% chance of them inflicting 1 Point of damage and it's actually 72% likely that attack will fail.
A Cultist with RAT 2 attempting the same attack... now, this is interesting: Firing at the Space Marine with DEF 5 they've also got a 6% chance of a critical hit, however, this would result in 3 Points of damage. The chance of a 1 Point hit reduces to 11%, meaning that it's 83% likely that the attack will altogether fail.
So whilst a -3 modified attacks can cause more damage than a -2 or -1 modified attacks, odds are very much against a successful outcome.
I suppose that's where strategic and tactical decisions come into play. For example, if a gang of Cultists pile into a single Space Marine, they could offset the DEF:CQ differential and get a 9% chance of causing multiple points of damage. Similarly, shooting from a height grants a +1 buff, and various weapons provide bonuses e.g., Spears are +2 vs Medium armour. Some thoughtful loadouts coupled with clever positioning could make a real difference.
So where from here? I might reconsider some of the loadouts I've documented for the various W40k troupes, but then again I might not. I can see this 'Absolute Damage' rule resulting in the occasional unexpected little guy beating big guy type outcome... but is that a bad thing? I don't necessarily think so. One thing that I'm looking forward to trialling is how this rule works with Necrons (who can regenerate) and Imperial Guard (who are low RAT and low CQ) - it could actually make for some really interesting engagements.
But I've been doing it wrong.
If it is the absolute difference between the RAT 3 and DEF 5 stats, then 2 points of damage should be applied. Now that's big news: Medium Armoured Tactical Space Marines generate 2 Energy Points so the difference between 1 and 2 Damage Points has a significant impact on their longevity.
But it gets even more interesting if you were to tweak the stats some more. More recently, I've been using Cultists with 2 Point stat-line i.e. RAT 2, DEF 2 and CQ 2. They come in at 17 Credits each instead of 31 - so you can almost afford two lower-powered Cultists instead and benefit from an extra 1 Energy Point in their Energy Pool.
If these less proficient Cultists were to score a Total or Critical Success on a Space Marine they'd do 3 points of damage, not 2. That's essentially game over for the Space Marine. Or is it...
Skill Checks in Rogue Planet are pretty nifty: a single roll of the die (usually 2d6) determines whether you succeed or not and what other factors are applied. Worth a read of some of my earlier Battle Reports to understand it more or you could buy the Rogue Planet rules, they're well worth their ~$10 price.
So if a Cultist with RAT 3 was firing at the Space Marine with DEF 5 (i.e at a -2 modifier) whilst they could potentially do 2 Points of damage, there's actually only a 6% chance of that occurring (discounting the Power Armour-related save). There's a 22% chance of them inflicting 1 Point of damage and it's actually 72% likely that attack will fail.
A Cultist with RAT 2 attempting the same attack... now, this is interesting: Firing at the Space Marine with DEF 5 they've also got a 6% chance of a critical hit, however, this would result in 3 Points of damage. The chance of a 1 Point hit reduces to 11%, meaning that it's 83% likely that the attack will altogether fail.
So whilst a -3 modified attacks can cause more damage than a -2 or -1 modified attacks, odds are very much against a successful outcome.
I suppose that's where strategic and tactical decisions come into play. For example, if a gang of Cultists pile into a single Space Marine, they could offset the DEF:CQ differential and get a 9% chance of causing multiple points of damage. Similarly, shooting from a height grants a +1 buff, and various weapons provide bonuses e.g., Spears are +2 vs Medium armour. Some thoughtful loadouts coupled with clever positioning could make a real difference.
So where from here? I might reconsider some of the loadouts I've documented for the various W40k troupes, but then again I might not. I can see this 'Absolute Damage' rule resulting in the occasional unexpected little guy beating big guy type outcome... but is that a bad thing? I don't necessarily think so. One thing that I'm looking forward to trialling is how this rule works with Necrons (who can regenerate) and Imperial Guard (who are low RAT and low CQ) - it could actually make for some really interesting engagements.
In the last few years, have you come to a conclusion as to whether the rules as written or the "round negatives up to 1" works better in practice? On an unmodified skill roll the David-vs-Goliath effect of the rules as written is quite fun, but if the positive and negative modifiers are totally maxed out then the expected value of damage for a skill difference of -5 is equal to that of +5 (=~1.5 for unpowered medium armour) which seems absurd...
ReplyDeleteYou know what, I think the application of the rules as written (i.e., using Absolute values when calculating damage) makes for a better game overall. If you're using Rogue Planet to simulate warfare or play a game that's akin to W40k in duration, balance, etc, then yeah, the absolute damage rule probably isn't the way to go.
DeleteI feel that Rogue Planet shines best when it's being played with 4-5 units (be them individuals or groups) apiece. At that scale you start entering narrative gaming territory, where the absolute damage rule's application makes for a great device for a memorable story.
That differential between the stats getting to 5 -points is extreme... at that point, you simply save your energy and take the hit :-(
Thanks - hopefully one day I can get back to Aus and test it out over some games!
ReplyDelete